XM Nightcrawler?

[craigcliff1]

SSC did do that NC many years ago, I think about ten years, been so long can't remember just when, so they could make him then

[ZenLogikos]

I've done some amateur cyber-sleuthing, and I do believe it's copyright-related. I've read a post or two before, alleging the same, but wanted to try to track down some details.

Some facts:
-Dave Cockrum created Nightcrawler, while in the Navy, before joining Marvel.(*)
-Paty Cockrum, his wife, also worked for Marvel.
-Nightcrawler was Cockrum's favorite.
-Sick, and in financial trouble in 2004, fellow artist Neal Adams tried to persuade Marvel to share profits from the recent success of blockbuster movies.
"though the company argued that it owed Cockrum nothing because he was a freelancer, Marvel ultimately agreed to pay Cockrum $200,000 for Nightcrawler. That amount, which Marvel has never confirmed, was judged insufficient by Adams."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cockrum

https://www.recordonline.com/article...News/612020330

Speculation:
-A lot of drama here, and I didn't read it all, but it seems Paty was never pleased with the situation, and may be involved in litigation.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/p....asp?TID=36808

-That litigation may not just involve money owed, but dispute over copyright (different type of Creative Commons License?), specifically my first "fact"(*) - Nightcrawler being created before being employed by Marvel, therefore not "work for hire".

-This may be why certain products have released over the years which included Nightcrawler. They may fall under a group designation, or pre-dated a lawsuit.

[Sonic Boom]

Nightcrawler will be made. XM finally got the go ahead, according to the FB group. If they want to turn that 1/6 into a 1/4, I would love that.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by Sonic Boom

Nightcrawler will be made. XM finally got the go ahead, according to the FB group. If they want to turn that 1/6 into a 1/4, I would love that.

No further details? Just..."license granted", after a curious and years-long hold-up?

Yeah, it would fit into their line-up perfectly. The Sentinel base just needs some Danger Room grid underneath it.

[mmk123]

Dave Cockrum had presented Nightcrawler to DC as a member of the Legion of Super Heroes back when he was the artist for the group in the early to mid 70's (he also presented Storm as well to DC). I wonder what would have happened if DC did put Nightcrawler in the Legion and how they would have handled the character. I would think that he would not have been a mutant but an alien from another planet or galaxy like the rest of the Legion are.

[ZenLogikos]

Originally Posted by mmk123

Dave Cockrum had presented Nightcrawler to DC as a member of the Legion of Super Heroes back when he was the artist for the group in the early to mid 70's (he also presented Storm as well to DC). I wonder what would have happened if DC did put Nightcrawler in the Legion and how they would have handled the character. I would think that he would not have been a mutant but an alien from another planet or galaxy like the rest of the Legion are.

I'm not a DC guy... Are there mutants or mutant-like equivalents in DC?

EDIT: craigcliff helped me out!

[mmk123]

There are mutants in the DC universe but they are not as prominent as mutants are in the Marvel Universe. Now I am a DC guy but right now I cannot think of a single mutant in the DC universe.

[Peedi]

If Nightcrawler was in the Legion and not the X-Men he’d be just like all of the other Legion...completely revamped every 2 years and in there lost somewhere in the shuffle:



Granted the X-Men have just as many in their number but how many in the Legion are highly notable, compared to how notable the top tier X-Men are, of which Nightcrawler is undisputedly one of them? Statue or not, Marvel, particularly X-Men, was the best thing that could’ve happened for the character.

[FJC]

Originally Posted by Sonic Boom

Nightcrawler will be made. XM finally got the go ahead, according to the FB group. If they want to turn that 1/6 into a 1/4, I would love that.

If true, that's fantastic news. Maybe we'll get lucky and sideshow will release one around the same time XM does. This way we'll have a chance to pick whichever one we think looks best.

[worstgamerever]

Originally Posted by ZenLogikos

I've done some amateur cyber-sleuthing, and I do believe it's copyright-related. I've read a post or two before, alleging the same, but wanted to try to track down some details.

Some facts:
-Dave Cockrum created Nightcrawler, while in the Navy, before joining Marvel.(*)
-Paty Cockrum, his wife, also worked for Marvel.
-Nightcrawler was Cockrum's favorite.
-Sick, and in financial trouble in 2004, fellow artist Neal Adams tried to persuade Marvel to share profits from the recent success of blockbuster movies.
"though the company argued that it owed Cockrum nothing because he was a freelancer, Marvel ultimately agreed to pay Cockrum $200,000 for Nightcrawler. That amount, which Marvel has never confirmed, was judged insufficient by Adams."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cockrum

https://www.recordonline.com/article...News/612020330

Speculation:
-A lot of drama here, and I didn't read it all, but it seems Paty was never pleased with the situation, and may be involved in litigation.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/p....asp?TID=36808

-That litigation may not just involve money owed, but dispute over copyright (different type of Creative Commons License?), specifically my first "fact"(*) - Nightcrawler being created before being employed by Marvel, therefore not "work for hire".

-This may be why certain products have released over the years which included Nightcrawler. They may fall under a group designation, or pre-dated a lawsuit.

Thanks for this, Zen.

Geez, so this is where we are any why we aren't seeing Nightcrawler anymore? I've been looking at the forum page you provided. A lot of bad blood here. See this quote;


"A few years before Dave Cockrum's death, several posters over on the x-fan/comixfan website asked Quesada (who often posted on those boards and even had his own forum dedicated to answering fans questions) could he hire Dave to draw some issues of either Uncanny X-Men or X-Men. Quesada responded to those fans question by saying that Dave's work would not appeal to today's current readership. He went onto say that all artists art will eventually cease to appeal to readers (including his own). He called this "social Darwinism" and said that is why he won't hire Dave to draw any X-Men comics. Needless to say, Dave (who also had his own forum on that same website) was understandably offended by Quesada's stupid and heartless comments. Ironically (more like Karma), Quesada's own recent art seems to be suffering from the so called "social Darwinism" that he accused Dave's art of suffering from. I think that is one of the main reasons why Paty is so pissed off at Quesada and Marvel"


I'm not sure what the way forward is. It explains a lot, though. At least now we know any talk of a forthcoming Nightcrawler statue is illusory. That'll also explain why the concept for XM never went beyond that stage.