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Old 11-13-2017, 12:27 PM   #531
Demona
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I'm shocked there were no early viewers from non US realms. Really looking forward to SF member reviews.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:33 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by Demona View Post
I'm shocked there were no early viewers from non US realms. Really looking forward to SF member reviews.
The movie didn't start playing abroad before the American release the way that Thor: Ragnarok did.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0974015/releaseinfo
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:41 PM   #533
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Perfect post Hellboy. Sums up my feelings on BvS, and the simplistic complainants about the Martha scene perfectly.

For the record I think that the Marta moment is pretty inspired and beautiful. That said, I do really think that Snyder made one fatal flaw with the resolution to their fight. Had he depicted Clark actively researching Batman, finding out he was Bruce Wayne, and making the disclosure about his mothers name in a tactical way to “win the fight“ , or at least get Batman to save her, it may have been more digestible . As it played out it was OK but the fact that he said save “Martha”, in reference to his mom, didn’t feel as natural as it could have as so few of us refer to our mothers by their first name.
Totally get what you’re saying. I think had he said “save my mother, save Martha” it may have resonated more universally. That said I don’t fault him for being more direct and just saying “Martha” given his current predicament. I actually thought the impact of the scene was elevated with Lois explaining who Martha actually was rather than Clark, so personally I wouldn’t change a thing.

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Okay this is where the people who like BvS confuse me. So what you and many others are saying is that it's okay for Bruce to kill and try to kill Superman in the movie because he is emotionally unstable due to the years of darkness that has surround him and the death of robin, but that doesn't jive with what's happening in the film. If Bruce has gone off the deep end and is now willing to kill, which he shows by murdering Lex's henchmen and trying to kill Superman, then why is the Joker still alive? You can't have it both ways, either he is or is not now killing, and if he is then The Joker should not and would not be alive because even with all the destruction Superman's fight caused, that single maniacal clown has killed hundreds and maybe even thousands by himself and a robin too boot as shown in the film. Also, it shows a lack of understanding. A war torn Batman would know what it's like to have collateral damage due to the life they live and the battles they fight against forces that do not care about the people around them. To have Batman basically fully blame Superman for the entire thing and show no thought other than wanting to kill him and not only that be played like a piano by Luthor tells me that the story in the film wasn't thought through thoroughly and did not have as much respect for the source material as it should have.
No, it doesn’t bother me that Batman has become jaded and kills in self defense or when he feels his mission requires it. He’s at a place where he’s willing to eliminate threats indiscriminately. He’s using his attributes of fear and intimidation to their fullest. In his eyes his traditional way of doing things where he has respect for all life has cost him and the innocents he protects too much. He has literally become judge, jury and executioner as implied in the film. Is it the traditional Batman we know? No, it’s not, but it isn’t supposed to be.

As far as The Joker goes, I’m not sure what he has to do with this film outside of the reference to what he did to Robin. We have no idea when they last met. For all we know Batman may have had a chance to kill The Joker and chose not to which resulted in the murder of Robin lending credence to his current mindset. My hope is their history is eventually fleshed out in one of his solo films.

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I honestly have so much contempt for the film that I didn't bother with the ultimate edition, whether it fixes the jumpy editing or not it won't fix what they did to the characters and and it doesn't fix the lack of depth in character development, which they needed to go into to explain their actions and why they are so far from the characters we've known since the mid-60's.
That’s unfortunate you haven’t given the UE a chance. I thought there was more character development in BvS than just about any superhero film to date, sans Watchmen.

I don’t think I’ve seen a comic book film that adapts everything from the written page without taking certain liberties. At least here I have an understanding where their motives are coming from. With Superman we’re seeing him become the traditional hero we know and with Batman we’re seeing him slip away from the traditional hero we know. Speaking for myself I appreciate not seeing these characters in the same place in life every time they get rebooted.

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That's one of my biggest gripes about BvS, they tried to put to much into one film, unless your a hardcore fan of Batman your not going to know what those glimpses they show even mean. A lot of it was very cryptic and because they were trying to cram it into one movie it made no sense to anyone who hasn't been reading comic books for the last 30 years.

Also as I explained in another post, Superman wasn't even in metropolis when Bruce's building was destroyed. By the time Superman got there everyone was pretty much evacuated or dead.

Bottom line is the movie had so much stuff crammed into it, the audience could not get invested into the characters. Everything was jumping around so fast it barely made any sense. We go from flashes of Bruce's past robins to weird dreams about Superman being a dictator to visions of other superhero's, it had no back story to any of it, unless of course your a hardcore comic fan.



The whole thing with the Martha name was just really poorly written.... They would of been better off just having Clark say "You have to save my mother" in his weaken state. I mean who calls their mother by their first name? The truth is, Snyder thought he was being really clever pointing out they both had mothers with the name Martha but it just came across as silly.



This just proves my point they tried to cram to much into one movie. Snyder got over ambitious and missed the mark of making a great movie.

DC should of made a solo Batman movie explaining his back story before BvS, that way they could concentrate more on Superman in BvS so they could get the audience to connect more with Clark, so when he dies in the end it's more emotional. They way Snyder did the movie pretty much nobody cared that Superman died. The audience never connected with the characters, that's the fault of the writers and the director.
I think I followed up on a lot of your points in my above posts but one thing I’d like to key in on is the “cramming to much into one film” comment. I honestly couldn’t disagree more. I find most comic book films to be overly simplistic and dumbed down for general audiences. Traditional formulaic narratives where things are basically spelled out for viewers in crayon can make for a fun time but isn’t very thought provoking. Granted an avid DC comic book reader might get more out of BvS than your casual moviegoer but walking away with questions or seeking greater depth on certain events in films isn’t a negative in my eyes. I loved that BvS was heavy on foreshadowing. That we were dropped into a fully developed DC world rather than watching it be built from the ground up. It’s a unique approach in a cliche ridden genre and I for one apllaud the approach. The prospect of having the characters fleshed out further in solo adventures holds more appeal to me like this.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:09 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron View Post
Okay this is where the people who like BvS confuse me. So what you and many others are saying is that it's okay for Bruce to kill and try to kill Superman in the movie because he is emotionally unstable due to the years of darkness that has surround him and the death of robin, but that doesn't jive with what's happening in the film. If Bruce has gone off the deep end and is now willing to kill, which he shows by murdering Lex's henchmen and trying to kill Superman, then why is the Joker still alive? You can't have it both ways, either he is or is not now killing, and if he is then The Joker should not and would not be alive because even with all the destruction Superman's fight caused, that single maniacal clown has killed hundreds and maybe even thousands by himself and a robin too boot as shown in the film. Also, it shows a lack of understanding. A war torn Batman would know what it's like to have collateral damage due to the life they live and the battles they fight against forces that do not care about the people around them. To have Batman basically fully blame Superman for the entire thing and show no thought other than wanting to kill him and not only that be played like a piano by Luthor tells me that the story in the film wasn't thought through thoroughly and did not have as much respect for the source material as it should have.



I don't find it to be an overreaction, but more a reaction to poor writing and the over acting that the scene uses. His reaction is a little ridiculous, especially for a man that was just about to plunge a spear into the chest of the man saying it. Either he's committed to his cause or he isn't but to suddenly go off the rails as he does at the mere mention of his mother's name is crazy and even a bit humorous. If Superman had said they're going to kill my mother, and Bruce knowing what that feels like stopped his rampage and saw Superman for what he is without the ridiculous dialogue the scene probably would be more palatable. I also disagree with the "masterful" plot that Luthor put into place, it's more like if you ignore the fact that Batman is a master detective it works.



I agree with every thing you said but the last bit.



I honestly have so much contempt for the film that I didn't bother with the ultimate edition, whether it fixes the jumpy editing or not it won't fix what they did to the characters and and it doesn't fix the lack of depth in character development, which they needed to go into to explain their actions and why they are so far from the characters we've known since the mid-60's.

I'm really hoping Justice league does a better job at the portrayals but I have no faith in Zack Snyder, so I'm hoping who ever takes the reigns after this has a bit more love for the comics than he did.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:10 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Gothamite View Post
The movie didn't start playing abroad before the American release the way that Thor: Ragnarok did.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0974015/releaseinfo
I didn't know that. Thanks for the link, Gothamite.

I wonder if that was bc DC was trying to avoid word of mouth since they don't get the love like Marvel (despite some being decent movies).
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:27 PM   #536
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I didn't know that. Thanks for the link, Gothamite.

I wonder if that was bc DC was trying to avoid word of mouth since they don't get the love like Marvel (despite some being decent movies).
Movies get varying release dates for any number of reasons:

1) different academic (school) calendars

2) different holidays

3) different seasons in Northern and Southern Hemispheres

4) blackout dates (in China, there are some periods when only Chinese movies can be booked in theaters)

5) FIFA World Cup (movies open either before or after the tournament because theater attendance goes way down during the event outside of the US)
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:36 PM   #537
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As far as The Joker goes, I’m not sure what he has to do with this film outside of the reference to what he did to Robin. We have no idea when they last met. For all we know Batman may have had a chance to kill The Joker and chose not to which resulted in the murder of Robin lending credence to his current mindset. My hope is their history is eventually fleshed out in one of his solo films.
My point is, if he's willing to go after and kill an Alien that has been roaming the world helping people who happened to be in a fight that caused a ton of collateral damage then why on earth would he not hunt down and kill the Joker with the same veracity? Considering he actually tries to kill as many people as possible, It has nothing to do with when they last met, but we see Batman actively gearing up and planning to kill another being, why is the Joker still alive if this is the Batman we're now dealing with? Wouldn't he have hunted down and killed him, especially after killing Robin, since that's the mind set we're seeing in this film.

Just saying, it doesn't make a lick of sense.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:47 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron View Post
My point is, if he's willing to go after and kill an Alien that has been roaming the world helping people who happened to be in a fight that caused a ton of collateral damage then why on earth would he not hunt down and kill the Joker with the same veracity? Considering he actually tries to kill as many people as possible, It has nothing to do with when they last met, but we see Batman actively gearing up and planning to kill another being, why is the Joker still alive if this is the Batman we're now dealing with? Wouldn't he have hunted down and killed him, especially after killing Robin, since that's the mind set we're seeing in this film.

Just saying, it doesn't make a lick of sense.
Ones an alien, ones a human being. And as for the discussion earlier about Batman and his borderline behavior thats not what I got out of it. Batman was hell bent on killing Superman as he saw what the beings with that kind of power were capable of after seeing Zod and his minions. The possibility of Superman turning against humanity was just a chance Batman wasn't willing to take.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:51 PM   #539
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Ones an alien, ones a human being. And as for the discussion earlier about Batman and his borderline behavior thats not what I got out of it. Batman was hell bent on killing Superman as he saw what the beings with that kind of power were capable of after seeing Zod and his minions. The possibility of Superman turning against humanity was just a chance Batman wasn't willing to take.
He seemed just fine killing Luthor's minions with his car, which takes the "It's because he's an alien" out of the equation.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:18 PM   #540
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He seemed just fine killing Luthor's minions with his car, which takes the "It's because he's an alien" out of the equation.
Meh
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