JND Studios: Mera 1/3

[Irenicus]

I am curious to see how JND will do on the 1:6 market.

They have a LOT of competition with Hot Toys and InArt. If they drop a subpar head sculpt like Arwen, it will not go well.

[RemydaGambit]

Originally Posted by pdenham

It's funny that in Daniel's video, when talking about the improvements made to the skin paint apps, he starts by talking about collectors having to get pieces repainted and how JND are striving to improve their techniques to such a degree that their buyers will never need to do that.

Given the price point, and just how complex and time consuming the suit painting is, I assumed they were doing these bodies in-house in Korea.

If these were done in China, and these colors reflect more of a combo of slack oversight and the factory making it's own adjustments willy nilly, that would both make sense, as well as being very aggravating. Regardless of how you may feel about the end result here, it goes against the basic tenets of the company goals they overbearingly state in every marketing video they make- accuracy and quality control.

It's clear that changes were NOT made to be more faithful or screen accurate, so it's either JND being capricious, or more likely a Chinese factory bungled it and JND is spinning the result rather than going back to formula. Daniel claims in the video that changes were made in the painting, but he "can't see the difference" from the prototype to this production piece. Really, Daniel?

He's not talking about JND getting repainted, he's talking about other statue companies that many people are not happy and having their statues sent to painters to be repainted. Ex, I've seen people getting Prime 1 1/2 and 1/3 scale superman repaint cause the skintone could look better. Also, many Sideshow pieces that needed repaints cause factory didnt do a bang up job. So Daniel is taking pride that when you get pieces from JND, you dont have to worry about having to have your pieces repainted.

The only piece that could use a repaint was their very first piece, Arthur. Their paintjob on skintone progressed a lot from their first piece and to their credit, JND offered a free repaint with the more advanced skintone technique.

Also, I think the final production piece of Mera looks even better than the proto.

[Billy Talent]

Originally Posted by Brandon

Criticism =/= negativity. If a company makes a claim and then falls short of it, are we not supposed to criticize them for it?

Collectors critique statues from all companies, but whenever it's JND's turn, it's suddenly considered blasphemy.

Infinity revealed the Daenerys bust and received a lot of critiques on it. What did they do then? They acknowledged that there was room for improvement and promised to do so, and everyone was satisfied. That is how it should be

I really respect Infinity for doing that, they did the same thing about The Batman (pattinson) people had issues with the pose, so they adjusted the pose, added a grapple gun and made some facial tweaks.

Jnd has a lot of potential, they nailed it with Mera if that truly is the production sample I will be receiving then I am a happy customer, and hopefully can get another JND piece....Galadriel's next....hopefully!

[Silas Loki]

Originally Posted by Brandon

Criticism =/= negativity. If a company makes a claim and then falls short of it, are we not supposed to criticize them for it?

Collectors critique statues from all companies, but whenever it's JND's turn, it's suddenly considered blasphemy.

Of course you can vent your frustrations, most people do.....just don't expect the companies to give a damn. It's nothing personal, I'm sure, it's just very difficult for companies to discern real critique from nitpicking. The problem is, critiquing a statue costs nothing, so when people are asking for changes, what's the incentive to do so for the company? There's no guarantee that the additional effort will pay off for them. Conversely, even paying customers - who pre order, and then complain...well, it's too late, they've got your money, so again, not much financial incentive to make additional effort....it's just business.

Originally Posted by Brandon

Infinity revealed the Daenerys bust and received a lot of critiques on it. What did they do then? They acknowledged that there was room for improvement and promised to do so, and everyone was satisfied. That is how it should be; collectors working with a company to get the best product possible.

I highlighted the word "promised". So far nobody has seen these promised improvements. And what guarantee does anyone have that any changes Infinity might make will result in an improvement? I could change the portrait so much that it looks like John Snow, would that be an improvement? Of course not....why are you so certain that the artist who made the original piece is therefore "capable" of doing any better? What exactly is this new found customer satisfaction and hope based on? - just a promise?

Originally Posted by Brandon

Notice how there wasn't a cult-like group of collectors insulting everyone telling them that they were poor or just haters for expressing valid objective critiques.

I can't speak for Infinity Studios "fans" - but I can tell you this, if you go back and read through the JND Arwen thread - take a look at who throws the first stone... (figuratively speaking).

People were given absolute freedom and space to air their opinions - it was those who were staunchly against JND's efforts who took it upon themselves to attack anyone who simply disagreed with their opinion, and appreciated the Arwen piece for what it was.

Anyone daring to like the piece was instantly labelled a Shill, Fanboy and / or Crazy.....the "gatekeepers" in that thread were the ones who wanted to hear nothing positive said about the piece.

Originally Posted by Brandon

JND does need encouragement to do better, as they have a lot to improve on. And if we leave it to the fanboys, we're just gonna end up with more and more plastic surgery portraits.

That's your opinion, and you can exercise your freedom to buy someone else's products if what JND releases doesn't meet your needs. I'm sorry, but there's a huge amount of arrogance in your statement - to suggest JND and it's artist need to "improve" just because your tastes are not satisfied. I'm not a fan of Van Gogh - I guess he would have needed to improve to gain my approval

But don't worry - us "fan boys" are more than happy to buy those JND plastic surgery portraits, so you don't have to

[Cmac]

Originally Posted by pdenham

It's funny that in Daniel's video, when talking about the improvements made to the skin paint apps, he starts by talking about collectors having to get pieces repainted and how JND are striving to improve their techniques to such a degree that their buyers will never need to do that.

Given the price point, and just how complex and time consuming the suit painting is, I assumed they were doing these bodies in-house in Korea.

If these were done in China, and these colors reflect more of a combo of slack oversight and the factory making it's own adjustments willy nilly, that would both make sense, as well as being very aggravating. Regardless of how you may feel about the end result here, it goes against the basic tenets of the company goals they overbearingly state in every marketing video they make- accuracy and quality control.

It's clear that changes were NOT made to be more faithful or screen accurate, so it's either JND being capricious, or more likely a Chinese factory bungled it and JND is spinning the result rather than going back to formula. Daniel claims in the video that changes were made in the painting, but he "can't see the difference" from the prototype to this production piece. Really, Daniel?

Just to be clear, I really don't have an opinion about this piece as it isn't something I was interested in. That said, I do see the differences and they are more than just a shade change.

JND has stated a couple of times that the bodies are made in China while the head is done in-house. The bodies are then shipped to JND for final assembly and (I assume) packaging.

Your opinion about the factory is pretty much inline with what my feelings were with the Dark Knight body's fiber coverings and Selina Kyle's heels. In both cases, the prototype was screen accurate and then changed to inaccurate. I don't know if the factory made the change due to cost, part availability, etc. but I was left wondering if JND knew about the changes beforehand and approved them, or they were just shipped to them that way and JND ran with it. You could make the argument that the Dark Knight's changes were more than minor due the percentage those fiber coverings make up of the body. In either case, customers with orders should've been told and given the option to cancel with a full refund. JND keeps portraying themselves as a premium producer of high-end pieces, but their behavior is not inline with their price range.

[pdenham]

Originally Posted by RemydaGambit

He's not talking about JND getting repainted, he's talking about other statue companies that many people are not happy and having their statues sent to painters to be repainted.

Right.
That's what I thought I was saying, though I obviously didn't express it well.
The statue I was thinking of when he said that was the Sideshow Gal Gadot, which almost looks like a different sculpt after a more competent repaint.

I just found the comment ironic seeing as how, if you were wanting or expecting a screen accurate replica of this character, this will now absolutely require a repaint

If it appeals to the buyer as is, that's fine. But it runs contrary to their mission statement of striving to be exacting and accurate, as well as representing a big deviation from the prototype.
Can you imagine the sh*tstorm that would have ensued if they took it upon themselves to change the coloring of the Dark Knight costume- like using silver instead of gold, or decided to shade parts of the suit with blue, just because?

I don't want to keep harping on this- but the closer I look, the more reason I'm feeling this was a really sketchy change.

Going back and looking at those photos they released a couple weeks back, it's clear they are using colored filters on the lights projecting on the suit (but curiously not the exposed skin!) to smooth out all these clashes of color and give it the appearance of a consistent, more unified whole. I'm very curious now to see the reaction once people get these in hand.

Originally Posted by RemydaGambit

Also, I think the final production piece of Mera looks even better than the proto.

In terms of skin tone and hair color, I would agree. Those elements look phenomenal- especially the skin.

I think the factory paints on the suit, besides being inaccurate, may prove an eyesore. But, we'll see.

I'm glad that my retailer for this is likely to be one of the last ones to get it, 'cause I definitely want some more time, and data, to gauge whether it's going to be worth the effort of repainting, if it doesn't work for me as is.

[pdenham]

Originally Posted by Cmac

Just to be clear, I really don't have an opinion about this piece as it isn't something I was interested in. That said, I do see the differences and they are more than just a shade change.

JND has stated a couple of times that the bodies are made in China while the head is done in-house. The bodies are then shipped to JND for final assembly and (I assume) packaging.

Your opinion about the factory is pretty much inline with what my feelings were with the Dark Knight body's fiber coverings and Selina Kyle's heels. In both cases, the prototype was screen accurate and then changed to inaccurate. I don't know if the factory made the change due to cost, part availability, etc. but I was left wondering if JND knew about the changes beforehand and approved them, or they were just shipped to them that way and JND ran with it. You could make the argument that the Dark Knight's changes were more than minor due the percentage those fiber coverings make up of the body. In either case, customers with orders should've been told and given the option to cancel with a full refund. JND keeps portraying themselves as a premium producer of high-end pieces, but their behavior is not inline with their price range.

Had heard that about the bodies- but given the complexity/precision of the paint apps required for this costume (if they were supposed to be going for screen accurate), as well as the higher price point relative to something with a TON of production work like Harley, I figured that meant they were intending to keep these bodies in house for tighter QC.
Obviously that wasn't the case.

I wasn't aware of those issues with TDK or Selina's heels. I do know some collector's expressed disappointment at the shade of gold found on WW84 versus the (more screen accurate) look of the prototype.

This would be my first JND piece. The experience here would go a ways to determining whether I keep the order in for the JL WW. The price point on that was partially justified by the perception that JND was this super accurate, exacting, spare-no-expense premium replica maker. They talk a good game, but if they just shrug and take anything the Chinese factories send them, they are really no better than any other other studio out there.
Just substantially more expensive.

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by Silas Loki

That's your opinion, and you can exercise your freedom to buy someone else's products if what JND releases doesn't meet your needs. I'm sorry, but there's a huge amount of arrogance in your statement - to suggest JND and it's artist need to "improve" just because your tastes are not satisfied. I'm not a fan of Van Gogh - I guess he would have needed to improve to gain my approval

That's an apples to oranges argument, my friend. Van Gogh created "subjective" art, JND doesn't.

It's not about my tastes, I don't think I've ever made that argument. For me it's always been about accuracy, which is rather hit or miss when dealing with JND, or really any company tbf. WW - hit. Supes - miss. Mera - hit. Catwoman - miss. Not based on my personal tastes, but objective accuracy.

Let's say I wanted to make a diecast replica of Ferrari 458. I can't just throw some panels together and say, "well it's my interpretation of a Ferrari 458." WHAT?! There's literally an exact blueprint/source material you have to recreate. If you deviate from it, for any reason, it's no longer a replica of the source material. This is something JND does every now and then. Can you at least admit that?

I don't believe I'm a JND hater (I've ordered nearly all of their DC female releases and plan on getting their Bale duo soon), I just call it how it is.

Honestly, I wish there was another company doing Hyperreal 1:3 DCEU. I'd support them. Alas, Queen and P1 seem to have slowed down in that area leaving only JND.

[67L88Stingray]

Originally Posted by Silas Loki

JND Bot Reply

There was no point to be missed, just you not addressing anything I said and spewing out logical fallacies left and right. There is no "incoherent garbled mess of conflicting opinions". It's basic accuracy most want, not that hard to understand(or so I thought), nothing subjective about it. I am not here to coddle someone's feelings; I am here to talk about a product I may or may not buy that is more often than not overhyped and underdelivered. What I don't need is some overzealous, drama loving, "defender of the insecure" nut telling me what my "moral right" is or isn't.

[Silas Loki]

Originally Posted by Brandon

That's an apples to oranges argument, my friend. Van Gogh created "subjective" art, JND doesn't.

I agree with you, with regards to the art itself. However, I was referring to my own subjective reaction to the art. Regardless of the object itself - your reaction to it, is down to your own personal tastes. Assuming that the object is universally wrong just because you have a negative response to it is arrogant, because you essentially assume that your reaction is the baseline reaction of everyone else.

Originally Posted by Brandon

It's not about my tastes, I don't think I've ever made that argument. For me it's always been about accuracy, which is rather hit or miss when dealing with JND, or really any company tbf. WW - hit. Supes - miss. Mera - hit. Catwoman - miss. Not based on my personal tastes, but objective accuracy.

Ok, so here you do it again. Now, just to be clear - when you state "Catwoman - miss" I'm assuming you're referring to the headsculpt likeness. But that's simply not "objective" fact - just your subjective response to the product. I mean, unless you live in a Vacuum - you must have seen numerous opinions from others that disagree with your appraisal. Therefore how can you say that JND has "failed". Yes, for you personally, that might be true - but it isn't and can not be universally true as there are many happy customers out there.

Originally Posted by Brandon

Let's say I wanted to make a diecast replica of Ferrari 458. I can't just throw some panels together and say, "well it's my interpretation of a Ferrari 458." WHAT?! There's literally an exact blueprint/source material you have to recreate. If you deviate from it, for any reason, it's no longer a replica of the source material. This is something JND does every now and then. Can you at least admit that?

I agree - again, focusing on the object itself and not the viewer's reaction - I totally agree. I said as much in my previous post. I also don't understand JND's logic behind making those changes. It doesn't matter if I might like the change, ultimately - the piece is no longer movie accurate - and this, IMHO, erodes JND's claim to be "detail oriented" - here, it is a valid gripe.

Originally Posted by Brandon

I don't believe I'm a JND hater (I've ordered nearly all of their DC female releases and plan on getting their Bale duo soon), I just call it how it is.

Honestly, I wish there was another company doing Hyperreal 1:3 DCEU. I'd support them. Alas, Queen and P1 seem to have slowed down in that area leaving only JND.

Competition is always good.