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Old 01-20-2019, 07:29 PM   #31
Gothamite
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head canon >>>>> "official" canon
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:48 PM   #32
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I read all the spoilers.. Wow. What a turd, but I really wanted to see it. Glad I'm not now.
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:08 PM   #33
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I read all the spoilers.. Wow. What a turd, but I really wanted to see it. Glad I'm not now.
....you were smarter than me then.
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:51 PM   #34
off
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Thought the end was a cop out. Really let down.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:11 AM   #35
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Thanks Monster and I apologise for the length of this post!

Ok, so this was an important one for me and my wife, the first film was our first date night movie, our first kiss blah blah :-)

My sister had already seen it, and said not to get my hopes up. The reviews seemed really negative, that M Night had fudged the landing on a trilogy almost two decades in the making.

I was enjoying the film throughout, but nervous and worried waiting for the twist or point where it might be ruined, my sister's foreshadowing up front in my mind.

I loved the started, with Bruce and his son almost taking on a Batman and Alfred relationship together. I'd heard that the film was more about Crumb than Dunn or Elijah, but I thought it was evenly balanced. For me, the story was always about Dunn, the origin of the universe.

The first act was great, then I started getting worried when the aim seemed to be coercing the 3 (and by extension us) into believing that maybe all they'd done, and all we'd seen in the movies, was fabricated in their minds. Dunn being a highly intuitive normal person, rather than the ability to touch and see 'sins'. An old gun and weak bars explaining the Beast's abilities. I didn't understand this, because I felt that they had physical abilities. How can you convince Dunn he's normal if he can just go back to his cell and break his cuffs, or bend his bed? Yet, just like how Elijah convinced Dunn originally that throughout his life, he just hadn't realised he was gifted, she managed to slowly convince them maybe she was right. Dunn questioning himself, Kevin having to repeat 'I believe, I believe' when transforming into the Beast. I didn't like it, but rationalised it at the end when Kevin was shot that it's psychosomatic, he was able to be shot because he was taken out of the Beast persona mentally (same as when he was Hedwig in Split and couldn't push the door open when the girls were holding it back).

So I kept going. Forward to the big fight at the end. Loving it. The lingering worry was fading, but I knew we didn't have long left of the movie. Then the 'twist' that Kevin's dad was on the train with Dunn. Ok, I can go with that. Elijah mentioned how amazing and coincidental it was, providence even, that his dad on the same train, effectively triggering both Dunn AND Kevin's transformation.

Then the final twist - that a secret organisation had been killing off anyone over 10,000 years with gifts that presented themselves. To hide them from society (we can't allow gods to walk among us), to suppress and oppress evolution and any powers that come with it. So they kill off Dunn and Kevin and I thought, I'm not going to watch another M Night film again, this is BS.

Finished the film and me and my wife both sat back and started talking and for us, ended up feeling that the ending was a stroke of genius on so many levels, despite the pain of losing Dunn in such a horrible fashion too (I begrudgingly accepted that Dunn loses his strength temporarily due to almost drowning, otherwise he could have easily overcome his attacker from being drowned, as he was weakened when he almost drowned in the pool in Unbreakable).

We felt that M Night was effectively saying this was never about him creating his own MCU, that this universe, this reality of people with gifts could very well be our own but that we'd never know it because of this 'Clover agency' monitoring anyone that may have powers. It seemed the shrink was experimenting with them as an alternate option of killing anyone with gifts (potentially making martyrs) and instead trying to convince them that they are nothing more than normal people with illusions of grandeur and ability.

And Mr Glass either knew about them, or his entire intent right from creating Dunn was to reveal superhuman to the real world (his real agenda). He convinced her that the plan was to set the reveal at the tallest building, but as we know it was really to use her own cameras to release footage of their gifts. She even called it his suicide mission, knowing he wouldn't make it. The hard part to swallow was him telling the Beast to drown Dunn in the tank was to also sacrifice Dunn for this purpose (despite knowing he had a son, he knew this was a worthy sacrifice).

By releasing the footage, he wanted to reveal the secret agency (this may be true, or simply a byproduct of releasing the footage, it depends if you think he was so beyond us that he knew about the agency already too), but predominantly wanted to awaken us, the world. To realise just like Dunn had after 40+ years, that maybe, just maybe you had gifts you disregarded, didn't even realise you had. Slightly stronger, faster, or further down the spectrum by being able to bend bars or not die from bullets.

To me, when his son looked back and smiled at the footage of his father released to the world, the smile was because this was his dad going beyond the 1% of his abilities that Elijah mocked him for using on common street thugs and robbers. His sacrifice was the start of a global awakening of gifted/superheroes and I think Glass was prepared to die for that.

I found it interesting that Night almost tried to convey that this was a possibility in our world, but at the very least, in the movie where powers are more realistic, confined to rules and physics as Elijah said. I hate and still do hate that the trilogy ends with David dying so harshly and unceremoniously to the equivalent of the 'Illuminati', but his death effectively brings forth the Age of Heroes in that world, awakening those with the genetic gifts they tried to eradicate for all those centuries.

Definitely deserves/demands a second watch, but while it still aches, I actually think it was a great ending to the story and trilogy. What do you think?
Well, I don't feel inclined to give Shyamalan the benefit of the doubt on this one. After almost 20 years of waiting to see David Dunn come back on screen and use his amazing powers to help people he was drowned in a freaking pot hole/mud puddle by a couple of guys he could have stopped at any time except when the script didn't want him to. It was a slap in the face to those who loved Unbreakable for all these years and a huge missed opportunity for Shyamalan to move his career forward and was a poor decision on his part in my opinion.

I was hoping for the tallest building in Philadelphia scene have David and the Beast take the plunge from the top of the building, and have the Beast be broken in a heap when they hit, and David Dunn climb up out of the hole unhurt, and unbreakable.

Instead we got a sucker punch in the gut when we see a character who has been beloved by many people drowned in a mud puddle by the pen of the very guy, who created him. I think this ending alienated fans who were just coming to hope for bigger and better things from Shyamalan.

Ultimately, based on the lousy ending, Glass was a big misfire on Shyamalan's part in my opinion.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:06 AM   #36
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Well, I don't feel inclined to give Shyamalan the benefit of the doubt on this one. After almost 20 years of waiting to see David Dunn come back on screen and use his amazing powers to help people he was drowned in a freaking pot hole/mud puddle by a couple of guys he could have stopped at any time except when the script didn't want him to. It was a slap in the face to those who loved Unbreakable for all these years and a huge missed opportunity for Shyamalan to move his career forward and was a poor decision on his part in my opinion.

I was hoping for the tallest building in Philadelphia scene have David and the Beast take the plunge from the top of the building, and have the Beast be broken in a heap when they hit, and David Dunn climb up out of the hole unhurt, and unbreakable.

Instead we got a sucker punch in the gut when we see a character who has been beloved by many people drowned in a mud puddle by the pen of the very guy, who created him. I think this ending alienated fans who were just coming to hope for bigger and better things from Shyamalan.

Ultimately, based on the lousy ending, Glass was a big misfire on Shyamalan's part in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree on wanting a more conventional ending, good guys win, bad guys lose - the Hollywood ending, especially with David as he really is a beloved character. Having the battle occur on the building exactly as you said would have been perfect, but for better or worse, as Shamalyan film fans, we know that's now what we're going to get. It's almost like he needs to say 'leave those endings to Marvel and the MCU.'

That's not to say it's right that he HAS to throw in these twists, or that he should have brought in this agency plot and so unceremoniously killed David, but if he did have them battle at the tower, the agency couldn't reveal themselves due to the media and public presence there, Glass couldn't out them and prevent the cycle of genocide that they had established for over 10,000 years.

He decided to incorporate them as the reason for why the universe seemingly only has 3 gifted people, the response mortals have to the exceptional. Much like Trask and his Sentinels, just hidden in the shadows. When he revealed them, as Glass says, it's no longer about Dunn, the Horde or even Glass, it's an origin story for the age of heroes.

If someone asked me what ending you would have preferred, I would have said the tower fight with Dunn surviving. Would I say it's the better ending for the story? I can't say. It's almost the question I'll have to answer come Avengers Endgame if Cap dies, my favourite character. Would I have provided an ending where he didn't, or Iron Man didn't (especially when it's likely they die for an emotional response but also as much that their contracts are ending outside of the movies) - or does their sacrifice make a more powerful resonance to the story?

I wish Dunn hadn't died so horribly for sure. However, I need to watch it again as there may be a huge unforgivable pothole that shows Night doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt - how did she convince David to doubt the 19 years of crimefighting?

If she didn't rationalise that, then the film makes no sense and it all fall down.
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Old 01-23-2019, 04:14 AM   #37
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However, I need to watch it again as there may be a huge unforgivable pothole that shows Night doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt - how did she convince David to doubt the 19 years of crimefighting?

If she didn't rationalise that, then the film makes no sense and it all fall down.
And that's the problem with "worldbuilding" -- someone creates a whole bunch of rules and then breaks their own rules. Waste of everyone's time.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:52 AM   #38
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Well, I don't feel inclined to give Shyamalan the benefit of the doubt on this one. After almost 20 years of waiting to see David Dunn come back on screen and use his amazing powers to help people he was drowned in a freaking pot hole/mud puddle by a couple of guys he could have stopped at any time except when the script didn't want him to. It was a slap in the face to those who loved Unbreakable for all these years and a huge missed opportunity for Shyamalan to move his career forward and was a poor decision on his part in my opinion.

I was hoping for the tallest building in Philadelphia scene have David and the Beast take the plunge from the top of the building, and have the Beast be broken in a heap when they hit, and David Dunn climb up out of the hole unhurt, and unbreakable.

Instead we got a sucker punch in the gut when we see a character who has been beloved by many people drowned in a mud puddle by the pen of the very guy, who created him. I think this ending alienated fans who were just coming to hope for bigger and better things from Shyamalan.

Ultimately, based on the lousy ending, Glass was a big misfire on Shyamalan's part in my opinion.
Agreed, terrible ending and boring first half. One of those I wish I never saw...at least most people agree. Can’t believe someone here thinks it’s genius? No way, let down on so many levels.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:08 PM   #39
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What an amazing film. A nice sour end. Glass achived what he wanted to achive since his childhood but as a result of a suicide massion. They all died... It was awesome, i love bad ends but sour ends are ok as well. Only the disney princeses who are all about good ends, and little butter flies dancing around pink flower under a rainbow would complain about such an amazing film.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:18 PM   #40
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What an amazing film. A nice sour end. Glass achived what he wanted to achive since his childhood but as a result of a suicide massion. They all died... It was awesome, i love bad ends but sour ends are ok as well. Only the disney princeses who are all about good ends, and little butter flies dancing around pink flower under a rainbow would complain about such an amazing film.
...or people who like good movies.
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