And we think gas prices are bad here......

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by averone

Humm, I was thinking that’s what are president was doing for the last eight yrs, sleeping with the oil companies! Have you taken a look at what their profit reports are as of late. Let stick it to them before he leaves the office!! God, I cant wait till next year! It cant come soon enough. Not to say there is an easy fix but this admin. didnt help a bit!

I know this comes as a shock, Presidents can't really do much about oil prices.
He has said we are "addicted to oil" passed new CAFE standards, and not exactly championed going after MORE oil by anyones standard. In fact he has signed on to to the whole global warming hype.

WE the people, created the fertile grounds for the existing oil companys and pseudo monopolies with our insistance upon reducing the ability for the free markets to compete for new oil resources. We should be offering government lottos to smaller companys to go out there in Alaska and N. Dakota, and offshore to get that oil! It is factual we have VAST untapped domestic resources...




See that yellow area by Cuba?

China drills there, no doubt slant drilling to OUR oil field is on the agenda too.


Cause and effect.
Poor national energy policy decisions were made long ago, now we brew in the repercussions.

We wanted no drilling, we want no new refineries, We wanted no new nukes, we wanted special blends of gas, we want our SUVs too.

It ain't rocket science.

Fact: We have vast untapped domestic resources.



The U.S. Is Poised to Hit a New Oil Gusher

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessres...er_080317.html
A new black gold rush is under way, this time in North Dakota. The potential payoff is huge -- up to 100 billion barrels of oil. That�s twice the size of Alaska�s reserves and potentially enough to meet all U.S. oil needs for two decades.



North Dakota oil finds a big one
by Dan Gunderson, Minnesota Public Radio


http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...8/04/10/ndoil/
The oil industry is booming in North Dakota, and a new study is likely to encourage even more development. The U.S. Geological Survey says North Dakota has the largest recoverable oil formation in the lower 48 states.




And as for large oil companys. be careful what you wish for, it's not as simply as it seems...
Just some things to consider, that ripping "big oil" a new one all of a sudden would not be a good thing.........


Exxon-Mobil Paid $3 in Taxes for Every $1 of Profit

http://nationaleconomist.com/blog/20...n-in-q1-taxes/

"The breakdown, according to Perry, is $9.3 billion in income taxes, $8.4 billion in sales-based taxes and $11.6 billion in other taxes.
Thus, Exxon-Mobil paid nearly $3 in taxes for every $1 in income. Exxon-Mobil’s income taxes of $9.3 billion in Q1 2008 also set a new all-time record for the highest amount of income taxes ever paid by a U.S. corporation in a single quarter."


George Will recently pointed out...

• ExxonMobil's 2007 profit of $40.6 billion annoys you. Do you know that its profit, relative to its revenue, was smaller than Microsoft's and many other corporations'? And that reducing ExxonMobil's profits will injure people who participate in mutual funds, index funds and pension funds that own 52 percent of the company?



Just pointing out, that a corporation that large and that much money is involved far more deeply than what people think at first blush.

So if you gun for them, you better have a plan that will replace all the things that are dependant upon their success. Which is surprisingly considerable and often far removed from what we first would think and beyond the sting at the fuel pump.

Do not read me wrong, I am for far more free market forces ok? We dont really have that right now. That is the only thing that makes things cheap. Competition.


Also "Big oil" globally?
Only two companys I think are American in the top ten. We DO want to have some big companys in that group. Many of those top ten are state owned too. Not even true companys.


just keep this stuff in mind.

It's complex, but supply and demand and free markets is as simple as it is to understand how to fix it.


Until the next big energy revolutionary breakthrough, that one day will come and people will laugh someday we used oil for fuel.
Until then we need oil to make our fuels. Dont feel guilty about it.

[Jesse321]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Until the next big energy revolutionary breakthrough, that one day will come and people will laugh someday we used oil for fuel.

Solar
Hydro
Wind
Natural Gas
Geothermal
Hydrogen
Bio-fuels

And those are just the tip of the iceberg, there are PLENTY of other sources of energy that would cut our dependency on fossil fuels .... most all of which are already being expeditiously used in other parts of the world!

But lets not tell the good old boys they can't have their trucks, guns and nukes ... cause that just doesn't equate!!!

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Jesse321

Solar
Hydro
Wind
Natural Gas
Geothermal
Hydrogen

And those are just the tip of the iceberg, there are PLENTY of other sources of energy that would cut our dependency on fossil fuels .... most all of which are already being expeditiously used in other parts of the world!~

But lets not tell the good old boys they can't have their trucks, guns and nukes ... cause that just doesn't equate!!!

Sure some of those things are options or already being tried.
But all our fleets of construction equipment cars, military, buses, aircraft use fossil fuels today, now.
You dont replace that in a day, and much of that simply cannot do the job our engines do right now.
And Americans are in LOVE with SUV's there is a culture there, not all people run out and choose a prius.

I am all for FREEDOM of choice, ok, if you want to buy or install stuff great, want to start an energy company that uses them good for you. tax breaks cetainly are already there. but do not force it on anyone. A better solution sells itself.

Nothing yet has kicked fossils fuels ass yet.


Those thing are not viable replacments for right now, and come at great costs to business to convert.

Your forgot nuclear by the way. One of the best solutions there is. Of course, we dont build new reactors much these days.

It will get there, but I think the next big thing remains yet undiscovered. Zero Point Energy perhaps. Something truly revolutionary.
Until then.. DRILL. and sure alternative sources are great, but no single one of them can top fossil fuels. That is fact.

[TNovak]

Originally Posted by Jesse321

Solar
Hydro
Wind
Natural Gas
Geothermal
Hydrogen
Bio-fuels

And those are just the tip of the iceberg, there are PLENTY of other sources of energy that would cut our dependency on fossil fuels .... most all of which are already being expeditiously used in other parts of the world!~

But lets not tell the good old boys they can't have their trucks, guns and nukes ... cause that just doesn't equate!!!

Nobody stops the ongoing use or production of any of those sources Jesse, in fact some of them are subsidized at outrageous taxpayer cost with little or at least less than what it costs benefits. The fact is that while they are good to be used where they can, most aren't that much help. For example, solar is nice but to heat a single home or provide much energy at all requires HUGE panels that must be cleaned and moved to get the benefit. Wind needs huge turbines and land hogging turbine fieldsand then must move and store the generated energy usually miles away. Geothermal energy is only accessible for a nonprohibitive price in a few areas of the country and is difficult to transfer or store. Natural gas is already used as much as possible and isn't cheap either. Biofuels costs more than the benefit and contributes to high food prices and even some shortages. Hydrogen has great promise but as yet isn't a cost effective alternative, not to say that it couldn't be, just that as yet it isn't.

What do guns and nukes have to do with fuel costs?

[Jesse321]

I didn't forget Nuclear, as far as I'm concerned it's not a viable option, it's proven to be more dangerous than beneficial when ti goes haywire, and the waste that it creates is just another problem that adds (excuse the expression) fuel to the fire.

Any new source (like the ones that I mentioned) are going to have to be renewable and non-polluting or else we're going to be in the same boat in 20 years time.

The US needs to start thinking in terms larger than 4 or 8 year increments.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Jesse321

I didn't forget Nuclear, as far as I'm concerned it's not a viable option, it's proven to be more dangerous than beneficial when ti goes haywire, and the waste that it creates is just another problem that adds (excuse the expression) fuel to the fire.

Any new source (like the ones that I mentioned) are going to have to be renewable and non-polluting or else we're going to be in the same boat in 20 years time.

The US needs to start thinking in terms larger than 4 or 8 year increments.

Nuclear is fine. Ask the French. Radical enviornmentalists have demonized it and we pay a price because of it now.

Waste is a temporary issue, we will eventually learn to process it or dispose of it. Eventually we could just lob it into the sun someday afterall. Yes, that is in the future, but doable. It makes too much sense, and many green thinkers have come around and embraced it.

[CessnaDriver]

Doable.........


http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf40.html

France derives over 75% of its electricity from nuclear energy. This is due to a long-standing policy based on energy security.
France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over EUR 3 billion per year from this.
France has been very active in developing nuclear technology. Reactors and fuel products and services are a major export.


France has 59 nuclear reactors operated by Electricité de France (EdF) with total capacity of over 63 GWe, supplying over 430 billion kWh per year of electricity, 78% of the total generated there. In 2005 French electricity generation was 549 billion kWh net and consumption 482 billion kWh - 7700 kWh per person. Over the last decade France has exported 60-70 billion kWh net each year and EdF expects exports to continue at 65-70 TWh/yr.

[Jesse321]

TN, I have solar panels on my house ... they heat my pool and my hot water in the house, with a back up tankless heater for days when the panels can't work for lack of sunlight. My electric bill has dropped by more then 50% since I had the panels installed (and I finally have a warm pool ) I'm currently in the process of having my kitchen converted to natural gas, and addnig on a generator that will power my ENTIRE house on propane in case of power outages (like from hurricanes)

I have a friend in Arizona that has a wind turbine (1 turbine) on her house that powers a lot of her household needs.

I understand the concept that "Rome wasn't built in a day" but if we don't start somewhere then we get NO WHERE!!

The point is that the sources ARE THERE, we just have to adjust our mentality to start using them! And notice I never said "ELIMINATE" our dependency (I'm not stupid, I know that's not going to happen at least not in our lifetime) I said "CUT" our dependency. Again, the problem is the mentality, it always has to be an "all or nothing deal" with the US ... we have to stop thinking in absolutes. Problems can be solved, even if they have to be solved in little steps rather than "giant leaps."

[Jesse321]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Nuclear is fine. Ask the French. Radical enviornmentalists have demonized it and we pay a price because of it now.

Waste is a temporary issue, we will eventually learn to process it or dispose of it. Eventually we could just lob it into the sun someday afterall. Yes, that is in the future, but doable. It makes too much sense, and many green thinkers have come around and embraced it.

Oh I get it now ... your ideas are "doable" but none of the others are because they don't resolve the issues immediately ... my apologies I didn't understand the permissible parameters of the discussion.

BTW .. WADR ... I don't need to ask the French ... I have the Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant not 10 miles from me on Key Biscayne. I fully understand the benefits and dangers of Nuclear energy ... it's just my personal opinion that the dangers outweigh the benefits.

[TNovak]

I'm not against solar or wind (but bio-fuels at the moment as the cost/benefit analysis stands I'm not excited about) energy and have no doubt that used as a partial or secondary source they can reduce costs. Heating your pool and water accounted for 50% of your electric bill? What I am saying is to use it as a source for the masses, meaning all they have to do is flick on their switches, would take a lot.

In a sense you and Cessna are both right. I live in ND and it looks like some of the oil we have been sitting on for years is finally going to be profitable to get at. We should use ANWAR and off shore sources too, should have started 12 years ago when it was approved but vetoed. Now that oil is so expensive and demand world wide so high, maybe the large panels required to capture significant amounts of solar energy will make economic sense as well as environmental friendly sense, same with wind.