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Old 07-02-2022, 12:52 AM   #61
Gruson
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Epic season IMO but no way all this was planned since season 1.

I also wanted more from Vecna, the battle was ok but thought he would put up a bigger fight. Still loved it.

Episode 4 Vecna / Max sequence was the high point. Epic.
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Old 07-02-2022, 01:02 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Gruson View Post
Epic season IMO but no way all this was planned since season 1.

I also wanted more from Vecna, the battle was ok but thought he would put up a bigger fight. Still loved it.

Episode 4 Vecna / Max sequence was the high point. Epic.
Yup, I've heard the Dufffers say otherwise, but I don't buy it. I think if I were to rewatch the series, Season 1 would stick out more than I'm remembering it, for inconsistencies with 2-4.

Other thoughts:
At least it's pretty clear that Eleven did NOT create the Upside Down, despite some misleading statements beforehand.

But I also thought we were supposed to be told why the Upside Down was 'frozen' three years ago. Wonder if that's important, or a simple, lazy plot convenience (ala Mind Flayer) for making them waste time, running around unable to find the weapons they were searching for at the time.
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Old 07-02-2022, 01:13 AM   #63
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I think if I were to rewatch the series, Season 1 would stick out more than I'm remembering it, for inconsistencies with 2-4.
To that point, why would Vecna spend all of season one DOING NOTHING, after Eleven reestablished contact with the Upside Down (years after sending him there the first time)?

So he manipulates the 'Mind Flayer' into possessing Will in season 2 and 3...to play the long game? I've seen no reason why he wouldn't have made his presence known and felt from the beginning. The Demogorgons could open portals at will... That doesn't make sense, with later seasons. Vecna could have opened and gone through a portal at any time, at least after Eleven did so the second time.
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:54 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ZenLogikos View Post
Yup, I've heard the Dufffers say otherwise, but I don't buy it. I think if I were to rewatch the series, Season 1 would stick out more than I'm remembering it, for inconsistencies with 2-4.

Other thoughts:
At least it's pretty clear that Eleven did NOT create the Upside Down, despite some misleading statements beforehand.

But I also thought we were supposed to be told why the Upside Down was 'frozen' three years ago. Wonder if that's important, or a simple, lazy plot convenience (ala Mind Flayer) for making them waste time, running around unable to find the weapons they were searching for at the time.
Okay this is pure speculation but it's what I'm thinking after seeing the end of season 4.

When 001 gets the the "upsidedown" it's it's blank. It has demigorgons and the sentient particles but it's a wasteland with no buildings.

The reason it's stuck in 1983 is because when they re-opened the gate, using 011 while searching for 001, 001 used what he gained from their opening the portal to build a reverse Hawkins. That's why everything stays as it is. He built it, but it doesn't move and it doesn't change from the point he built from.
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:58 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenLogikos View Post
To that point, why would Vecna spend all of season one DOING NOTHING, after Eleven reestablished contact with the Upside Down (years after sending him there the first time)?

So he manipulates the 'Mind Flayer' into possessing Will in season 2 and 3...to play the long game? I've seen no reason why he wouldn't have made his presence known and felt from the beginning. The Demogorgons could open portals at will... That doesn't make sense, with later seasons. Vecna could have opened and gone through a portal at any time, at least after Eleven did so the second time.
Since it's a Hive mind the Demigorgon from season 1 doesn't actually physically see Eleven until the end of the season.

Remember, season 2 is about opening a huge portal between the worlds, he's trying to come back. Season 3 is about using Billy to disable Eleven so she can't close the portals he wants to open to bring his world into ours.
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Old 07-02-2022, 05:29 AM   #66
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Okay this is pure speculation but it's what I'm thinking after seeing the end of season 4.

When 001 gets the the "upsidedown" it's it's blank. It has demigorgons and the sentient particles but it's a wasteland with no buildings.

The reason it's stuck in 1983 is because when they re-opened the gate, using 011 while searching for 001, 001 used what he gained from their opening the portal to build a reverse Hawkins. That's why everything stays as it is. He built it, but it doesn't move and it doesn't change from the point he built from.
Good observation.

Makes sense, I guess, but that's more the 'how' than the 'why'.

Unless recreating the town was necessary to create portals from one to the other directly (so much for the theory that the whole world exists in the Upside Down, and the Russians could enter a portal and come out in the US). But that leads to my response to your other post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh-a-tron View Post
Since it's a Hive mind the Demigorgon from season 1 doesn't actually physically see Eleven until the end of the season.

Remember, season 2 is about opening a huge portal between the worlds, he's trying to come back. Season 3 is about using Billy to disable Eleven so she can't close the portals he wants to open to bring his world into ours.
I don't think that's right. The instant Eleven touched the Monster, the connection was made, the portals could be opened, and Vecna should have known it all.

Your season 2 point... Why? Why open a huge portal? All Vecna had to do was go though one. IF he really wasn't the Mind Flayer the whole time...drop the ruse and walk through. Why the theatrics? And season 3, again, makes sense if you believe it's the Mind Flayer, but less if it was really Vecna.
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Old 07-02-2022, 09:31 AM   #67
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I don’t think he’s nearly as powerful as he lets on, if he just crawled through a Demo-portal sure he could do some damage, but a couple good hits with a Steve style baseball bat or any gun would’ve put him down pretty quickly .
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Old 07-02-2022, 11:36 AM   #68
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Good observation.

Makes sense, I guess, but that's more the 'how' than the 'why'.

Unless recreating the town was necessary to create portals from one to the other directly (so much for the theory that the whole world exists in the Upside Down, and the Russians could enter a portal and come out in the US). But that leads to my response to your other post...
It could be because of the portals and mapping that out necessitated it, or it could simply be because that's the information he had and it's also all he knows.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenLogikos View Post
I don't think that's right. The instant Eleven touched the Monster, the connection was made, the portals could be opened, and Vecna should have known it all.

Your season 2 point... Why? Why open a huge portal? All Vecna had to do was go though one. IF he really wasn't the Mind Flayer the whole time...drop the ruse and walk through. Why the theatrics? And season 3, again, makes sense if you believe it's the Mind Flayer, but less if it was really Vecna.
Like I said, it's speculation but her touching the demi in whatever ethereal space she was in might not have the same effect has physical sight or contact.


I give Stranger Things a lot of credit, they've made a Sci-fi Horror show that has an 80's nostalgic feel and it's unlike anything I've ever seen. So while there still might be some unanswered questions, this is probably the most well put together show Netflix has ever done.
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Old 07-02-2022, 07:13 PM   #69
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I don?t think he?s nearly as powerful as he lets on, if he just crawled through a Demo-portal sure he could do some damage, but a couple good hits with a Steve style baseball bat or any gun would?ve put him down pretty quickly .
And that's one reason why it's pretty disappointing to me that he's the big bad. He's pretty much unchanged from when he was a kid and killed his family. His motive seems pretty weak to me. That's what's threatening the world? Some kid who, at 12?, has a little bit of power and didn't fit in? And wants to remake the world and kill everyone? Then, he grew up a captive (and seemed pretty well adjusted/trusted for an orderly)... but once freed, resumes his killing ways. I dunno - I see the parallels with the Duffers, ostracized kids, outcasts, D&D, etc., but to make him the big bad? Instead of some alternate dimension, eldritch entity?

A lot of my other nitpicks regarding the Upside Down, and answers (or lack thereof) - I'll shelve for a while. Just watched an interview with the Duffers on Variety where they state "answers for the Upside Down is really what the basis of season 5 is about". They specifically mentioned the time freeze as well. So we'll see if they can avoid LOST and GoT fate.
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Old 07-02-2022, 07:36 PM   #70
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Was that Conan's Atlantean sword? I was like "What?"
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