Did this man go too far?

[VinReaper]

Originally Posted by rilynil

So you're saying that anyone who runs away from your house should be killed? Again, the law doesn't support this.

Are you guys really arguing the vigilante justice is lawful? Really?

I didn't say that at all! I just am saying you can't assume that the guy wasn't or wouldn't have injured, harmed or killed the guys family or if he had a weapon because he was running away.

I do advocate protecting ones own!

I am not condoning him taking chase after the criminal, but I would not have had a problem with him take him down either on his own property.

We are all debating this scenario without all the facts is what seems to be the problem.

1. We don't anything about the criminal.
2. We don't know if it is the same criminal or gang of criminals that have been plaguing him.
3. We don't know the particulars of the break in.
4. We don't know what was stolen or damaged.
5. And we don't the actually time line of events.

So it is hard to say what you think may or may not be right, but like I said I would stop at nothing to protect my own. And if the criminal were the same criminal that I knew was plaguing me and consistently put my family in jeopardy, be rest assured I would search him out and take him down.

VR

[rilynil]

I agree, VR: We don't know all the facts of the case. There are always circumstances that aren't in the light. But we do know the D.A. said there are unreleased details that support the shooter's arrest. In other words, the D.A. believes a murder charge was warranted.

Still, I have no doubt that this guy was incredibly frustrated with all the break-ins. I just don't believe the way he handled the problem was lawful.

Originally Posted by VinReaper

Sympathy is one thing, feeling guilt and exacerbating the situation by not increasing education and giving unearned aid to those is what should be considered stupid. That is what the welfare system of this country has turned into. When it was created it was meant to alleviate excess financial strain from families that have experienced job-loss, displacement due to tragedy such as fire and any other extreme situation on a TEMPORARY basis. It is now utilized and exploited by people as a primary source of income. As is low income housing which is overly exploited as well. It serves as now stimulation to the economy and removes any incentive for those living in this PROVIDED housing and collecting Welfare to better themselves. You forget to mention the time constraints those countries that have better support infrastructures impose on these programs as well as the mandatory education of the people on them. This is not how it is here so a comparison is not even capable.

I'd be interested to see you back up even a single one of those points, since I know for a fact they're all incorrect (well, beyond the purpose of welfare, since that is correct and that's primarily how it's used in every single country in the world)

Do you know how much welfare money the US provides for people? It's pitiful. Even in countries where considerably more aid is given (Canada, most of Europe) people don't live on it as a primary income source because it's too low. That people are still buying into this welfare queen myth is ridiculous.

The rest of those countries also impose less restrictions on the aid as well, despite your claim otherwise. Not even sure where you heard that belief.

As for the sub-prime problem being a partial cause. You are right! But partial is still a problem. And with the above explanation on our Support Infrastructure, that partial becomes PRIMARY!

If you'd like to watch a PBS special about the subprime mortgage stuff, it can explain it in far more detail than I'm capable of. I can give you a link, because it seems you've bought into the belief that the poor are to blame for that as well. It wasn't the poor in society that were pretending risky loans were AAA securities and leveraging them hundreds or thousands of times, it was the richest in society.

Remember the adage,....

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach a person how to fish and they never go hungry!"

We have to stop giving out fish!

Pretty hard to teach a person to fish when there's no jobs available.

[boondocksaint]

wow...id say he went to far...if he was in the house and my familys well being was at risk id shoot...if the guy was out of the house running away i wouldnt shoot

[Devils Drifter]

Someone breaks into my house and I have a gun they're getting shot, either on the way in or out I don't care.

Originally Posted by VinReaper

We are all debating this scenario without all the facts is what seems to be the problem.

That's true. I'm arguing from the viewpoint that the crime failed and the criminals ran off after making no violent attempt on anyone.

If they were still in the house and were trying to attack, that's obviously self-defence and justified. Chasing a guy down and executing him isn't.

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by Devils Drifter

Someone breaks into my house and I have a gun they're getting shot, either on the way in or out I don't care.

lol i hear that!

but would you chase after him and shoot him down while he was running away?

[Simon Williams]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

lol i hear that!

but would you chase after him and shoot him down while he was running away?

I would have shot him in the legs and then dragged him back into the house to finish him off.

Then as I was about to close the door to the house I would Yell out "And if anyone says anything to the Cops,I know where you live".Then slam the door shut.:crazyal:

[Argonus]

Originally Posted by Argonus

If you're stupid and uncivil enough to break into a man's house, you'd better be f#cking prepared to be killed by that same man via him defending himself.. honestly, how's your "victim" supposed to know if you mean him harm or not?

I agree that if you're fleeing the scene without having caused harm to your victim or his family, that's something else entirely and doesn't warrant your death (@sshole criminal though you may be)... but, still.. don't expect to not be "physically compromised" in some fashion if you're stupid enough to rob someone.

Quoted myself.

[VinReaper]

Originally Posted by dr_teng

I'd be interested to see you back up even a single one of those points, since I know for a fact they're all incorrect (well, beyond the purpose of welfare, since that is correct and that's primarily how it's used in every single country in the world)

Do you know how much welfare money the US provides for people? It's pitiful. Even in countries where considerably more aid is given (Canada, most of Europe) people don't live on it as a primary income source because it's too low. That people are still buying into this welfare queen myth is ridiculous.

The rest of those countries also impose less restrictions on the aid as well, despite your claim otherwise. Not even sure where you heard that belief.



If you'd like to watch a PBS special about the subprime mortgage stuff, it can explain it in far more detail than I'm capable of. I can give you a link, because it seems you've bought into the belief that the poor are to blame for that as well. It wasn't the poor in society that were pretending risky loans were AAA securities and leveraging them hundreds or thousands of times, it was the richest in society.



Pretty hard to teach a person to fish when there's no jobs available.

These are not my beliefs but actual that are occurring around me here in NY! You being in Canada and reading about it may be what makes our views differ. You are welcome to come and witness it first hand for yourself. I can only speak on my personal frame of reference concerning our Welfare plan. As for my knowledge of other country's welfare programs I have not lived in these countries to experience them first hand, but have many relatives that have and they too feel that a system that allows the welfare programs to be exploited will surely only come to ruin as has ours, the US's!

You statement, "Do you know how much welfare provides for people? It's pitiful!" Is my exact gripe! And obviously is yours as well.

Once again these are not my beliefs these are my personal experiences based on fact.

As for the sub-prime mortgage link, please do post it! You can never learn too much. And I would like to see the show you speak of.

As for it being the richest that leveraged the loans, I am in total agreement. I do not argue that it was greed that created this problem. It is just that greed had taken advantage of those that were too poor to own their own homes and utilized their desire to have them as the vehicle to write the programs. And then more and more of these people were attracted and finally felt entitled to be home owners. Sad to say! Not everyone was meant to be a manager, homeowner or Captain of industry. But these greed mongers took advantage of many of those that are not suited for this and here we are today.

As for the jobs being scarce. I agree they are. Maybe if they took the unnecessary spending in welfare and funneled it into small business, which our country was built on, maybe small business could create more jobs and hire these people. Thus teaching them how to fish.

The next topic we will roll into is the illegal immigration and outsourcing which is also part of the problem. BUT I will stop there because this thread is getting off track and we can go back and forth on this forever.

You live in Canada and I live in NY!

I agree with you to disagree! LOL!

That's why there are horse races!

VR